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0:07

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0:10

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0:12

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0:30

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0:32

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0:34

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0:36

is saying he can't confirm your

0:38

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0:40

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0:43

we cannot be five floors away from our kids.

0:45

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0:48

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0:50

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0:53

Welcome to Hilton. I see your connecting

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rooms are already confirmed. Hilton,

0:57

for the stay. Before

1:00

we start today, I wanted to let you

1:02

all know we've been working on a great

1:04

new slate of episodes starting next week. In

1:07

the meantime, enjoy this episode with

1:09

singer-songwriter Wim Grace, who shares her

1:12

eye-opening experience with online job scams

1:14

and some valuable tips to keep

1:16

you safe. Oh, and just

1:19

like a Marvel movie where there's always a great

1:21

clip after the credits you don't want to miss,

1:23

Wim treats us to some of her incredible music

1:26

at the end of today's show. I

1:31

don't have bow! Travis?

1:34

Yes. Guys, this

1:36

week turned out to be sort

1:38

of challenging. On Saturday, I

1:41

got an alert from Experian saying

1:44

that my social security number had popped up

1:46

with a name that was not my name.

1:48

I've been using it, and it's been

1:50

terrific. I want to thank you very much for

1:52

it. Why don't you use your own social security

1:54

number? Because it's much more fun using yours.

1:57

It costs me a heck of a lot less. So

2:01

this of course set me down a rabbit

2:03

hole of, it turned out pretty

2:06

decent size rabbit hole. I

2:09

logged on first to irs.gov

2:11

where I have an account.

2:13

I'm sure you're familiar with that site.

2:16

Yes. And

2:18

then I probably forgot that I logged

2:20

on to irs.gov because

2:23

it wasn't working properly. I got a

2:25

warrant, something saying, oh well, it's not really working

2:28

right now, I logged back in later and I

2:30

forgot that I did it. So I'll

2:32

deal with this on Monday, I thought to myself

2:34

and I on Monday dutifully logged

2:37

on, looked at the email from Experian

2:39

and checked my credit report as they

2:41

suggested I do. And

2:43

I went back to irs.gov and

2:45

I saw that somebody had

2:50

logged into my irs.gov account on

2:52

Saturday. And

2:55

I had forgotten that it was me so I completely freaked

2:57

out. So the

3:00

next thing that I ended up doing was, well,

3:03

I wrote to a friend of ours,

3:06

Adam's, Stephen Isaacs, and

3:08

told them the whole story. I

3:11

checked all my credit freezes. I

3:14

immediately applied for my IRS one

3:16

use annual pin code so

3:20

that nobody could file taxes in my name.

3:24

And I set

3:26

up two factor authentication everywhere. I went into

3:28

last gas

3:31

mode and even

3:33

started to check my passwords.

3:37

And so I spent, I would

3:39

say probably two hours going

3:41

through and making sure everything was secure.

3:43

And I learned something. No, what? I'm

3:46

pretty secure. Where

3:48

there's two factor authentication, I

3:50

use it. And I was talking to Travis about

3:53

this and I told him, I was like, well, I

3:55

have this password that I reused here.

3:59

And he was like, yeah. And then I, but

4:01

I also had two factor authentication and another

4:03

form of authentication on the account. So unless

4:05

you have my phone and my email, you

4:07

weren't getting in. And,

4:10

um, and that's not an invitation

4:12

to SimJack me. Why is

4:14

that not an invitation to SimJack me? Cause you

4:16

don't want to get SimJacked I'm guessing. No.

4:19

Do you think that you could SimJack me? There's

4:21

the question. Um, yeah,

4:25

straight up, straight up, straight up.

4:27

Question Adam, Travis,

4:30

I'm inviting you. Could you SimJack me?

4:32

Yep. One of the easiest ways to do

4:35

it is just simply to bribe someone that

4:37

works for the mobile carrier. You

4:40

scum. Yeah. So it doesn't

4:42

need to be anything like a like

4:44

double Oh seven super hacking or anything

4:46

like that. Really just, uh, it's happened enough

4:48

times where just someone like, like AT&T or

4:50

Verizon gets 50 bucks and they can just

4:52

kind of get into your account. Really?

4:54

I actually paid less to get

4:56

Bose number that

4:59

I can SimJack. What? I paid 50.

5:01

Oh, you overpaid buddy. Yeah.

5:04

I'm generous. I dislike you both

5:06

immensely. Okay. I'll go

5:08

with that. I do. I

5:10

was telling a story. It was a good story about

5:13

how I'm doing everything right. And if

5:15

you didn't happen to figure out a

5:17

way to make me feel completely terrified

5:19

again, thank you very much. Mr.

5:22

Doomsday, Travis Taylor, Darth Vader. It's my stock

5:24

in trade. What can I say? Welcome

5:29

to what the hack a show about

5:31

hackers, scammers, and the people they go

5:33

after I'm Adam Levin cyber

5:36

avenger. And I'm

5:38

Bo cyber

5:41

curious. And

5:43

I'm Travis just plain cyber. And today we're

5:45

talking to Wim grace who

5:47

we might say experienced the

5:50

education of Wim grace while applying

5:52

for a teaching position overseas. When

5:54

she was 22. Wim,

6:02

we'd like to introduce you to your relative,

6:04

Bo. Hey, Bo. Oh,

6:08

hello, my mother's cousin's daughter.

6:14

Yeah, I think that's right. Nano

6:17

was your grandmother? Yeah,

6:19

Nano. Nano. Yeah. I

6:22

see I'm from Connecticut, so it's just Nano. No, you're cool.

6:24

I just, for a second, I'm like, wait, what is that?

6:27

Yeah. That's your grandparents. Yeah,

6:29

that was my grandparents, yeah. You could be like a

6:32

13th cousin, twice removed.

6:36

Well, speaking of, you know, if we both do 23andMe,

6:39

we'll be introduced again. Oh,

6:41

God. I've been scared to

6:44

do that. My mom actually bought it for

6:46

me, and I'm also like a

6:48

really mixed kid, so I already have a very

6:50

diverse background. So I was like terrified to take

6:52

the test, because I was like, it took me

6:54

forever to memorize all of the, like,

6:57

the for sure things I have, let alone,

6:59

like, all the strange percentages I don't know.

7:02

I don't know if I want to, is that weird?

7:04

I don't know if I want to meet more family.

7:06

It just, it fucking gets really complicated, really. In

7:10

full disclosure, I also have

7:12

a 23andMe in

7:15

a box, in a drawer, unused,

7:18

because I too am not quite sure

7:20

I want to know. To

7:22

me, it's sort of the genetic version of a

7:25

Pandora's box. I think it's

7:27

maybe better unopened in that drawer.

7:29

I agree. I see already how

7:31

we're related. Just

7:35

how we want to keep this, did relations this,

7:37

then, maybe. Well,

7:40

yeah, could be. Listen, I'm,

7:42

this is a shame-free zone, which includes

7:44

my own family of origin. They get

7:46

a pass. So you're

7:50

really welcome here today

7:52

because we're, on this

7:55

show, we're very interested

7:57

in stories, good stories.

8:00

And from what I hear, you

8:02

have a really good story that

8:05

starts in Spain maybe,

8:07

is that right? Yeah,

8:16

yeah, it starts in Sevilla, Spain. Yeah,

8:19

and I was going to school there. I

8:21

was getting my Delta certificate through a Cambridge

8:23

program. What is that? That was a recent thing. Delta

8:27

is the first certificate you can

8:29

get that allows you to teach

8:31

English as a foreign language in

8:34

the world. So you can teach English

8:36

as a foreign language, but it's like

8:38

the first level of accreditation. The

8:40

next level is Delta, and that

8:42

allows you to teach business English.

8:45

Well, something else we have in common, I

8:47

did it illegally in Germany

8:49

when I was quite young. Yes, no certificate.

8:51

I'm sure I feel bad for all of

8:53

them because they were speaking gutter English. So

8:57

wait a minute, in addition to teaching, what other

8:59

things do you do? I'm

9:01

a musician. I've been touring musicians for a long

9:03

time. I'm also a stripper, but just also like...

9:05

I am a stripper in the family? Oh

9:09

my God. You guys like

9:11

weird stories. There you go. You know, Beau was

9:13

trying out for Chippendales, but Travis and I got

9:15

them under control. Oh, he only does it for

9:17

you guys now. I

9:20

do, but I wish that the look on

9:22

my face could be translated into audio. I

9:24

was so fascinated. So I

9:28

feel like I should be more fascinated by your music, but

9:30

I'm curious. So you're

9:32

a stripper currently and you work

9:34

somewhere doing that? Yeah, I'm

9:37

in New Orleans working in the

9:39

French Quarter working at Penhall. Very

9:41

nice club. Very cool. And

9:44

then the music you make, I've heard some

9:46

of it. How

9:48

would you describe it? What is the genre? It's

9:51

like haunting in the

9:55

world, I guess, but with electric

9:58

guitars. Okay,

10:01

so now in your stripper life,

10:04

I'm sure that you've also been

10:06

exposed to scams, correct? No.

10:09

Really? I mean, I've

10:11

been pretty straight up. That's

10:14

actually one of my attractions to the work.

10:16

I don't think people ever think about it

10:18

that way, but I feel like it's one

10:21

of the most like honest jobs. There's

10:26

no real confusion why people are in the

10:28

space, you know? It's

10:30

a straightforward transaction. Pretty

10:32

normal, and you get paid cash, you get the cash

10:34

anymore, you know? It's

10:37

pretty clear and clean for me.

10:40

Not everyone's experience of it just like anything,

10:42

but... Well

10:44

and nobody's hiding anything. Except...

10:47

Exactly, exactly. It's all out in the

10:49

open, as we say. Hey

11:03

Bo, you know, it doesn't matter what time

11:05

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11:08

a lot of time to cook. Oh come

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active. So

12:04

Bo and Adam, you guys know I'm a

12:06

bit of a privacy geek, if you will.

12:08

Oh yeah. Yeah, you are. Yeah, totally. I

12:10

really just don't like the idea that just

12:12

about anyone can find you online, can find

12:14

out where you live or your email address,

12:16

your phone number, or anything. I just think

12:18

that entire idea is super creepy. There's so

12:20

much of my data already out there, but

12:22

is there something that you can do? Yeah,

12:25

actually you can use delete me delete me as

12:27

a service that pretty much does the heavy lifting

12:29

for you where they go to all the data

12:31

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12:34

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12:36

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12:38

they make it quick, easy, and safe to remove

12:40

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12:43

brokers, they can accumulate huge amounts of your personally

12:45

identifiable information. And if all that information gets into

12:47

the hands of a bad actor, that opens you

12:49

up to a lot of risk. And

12:52

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12:54

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12:56

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13:00

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13:02

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code WTH, which stands

13:16

for what the hack. And we thank

13:18

you for supporting delete me and what

13:20

the hack. So

13:26

what is, what is getting a

13:28

certification to teach? Um, how

13:31

does that lead to a scam? What, what,

13:33

what happened? So I went from Sevilla,

13:36

the program route, and I

13:38

went from Sevilla to Portugal

13:40

and Kaskai, Portugal,

13:42

um, beautiful. Um,

13:45

but it was winter. So I

13:47

was in a sir postal that was

13:50

empty. So

13:52

you're on the sea, you're on the Atlantic. Right. Yeah.

13:55

Um, Ray, this is kind of like the

13:57

shining, but in, in Europe, you know.

14:00

I hope not. I don't remember that part of the

14:02

story. Good. You were sleeping. It's

14:04

better you didn't know. Yeah.

14:09

I wanted to get some me time because

14:11

I've been around a bunch of students and

14:13

I really love the ocean. But also I

14:15

thought I'd take all that quiet to fill

14:18

out all these applications

14:20

to teach in various centuries abroad.

14:22

And it's a pretty tedious process and

14:24

you just everything's online, which

14:27

was pretty new back then. This is like over a

14:29

decade ago. So

14:32

you just there's

14:34

various websites have various jobs. And

14:37

I specifically have a lot of

14:39

background teaching children outside of

14:41

teaching English. And so I wanted to

14:43

work with kids. And anyways, I was

14:45

looking through all these jobs and

14:47

I started applying. And, you know, in

14:50

my quiet time and then like surfing

14:52

and bad weather. But

14:55

I fell in between. And

14:58

as I was going through these applications,

15:00

two jobs got back to me and

15:02

they said they wanted to hire me.

15:04

And one was based in Indonesia and

15:07

one was based in Portugal. I

15:17

was like really obviously excited about

15:19

both. But it's pretty hard to get

15:21

a job in Europe in general. I

15:25

had teaching experience, but not so much. It

15:27

was like a in Europe. So it was

15:29

like a really amazing opportunity for me. And

15:31

also I was in Portugal because I was

15:33

there. So

15:36

I said no to the

15:38

Indonesia job and yes to the Portugal

15:41

job. Now, can I ask you a

15:43

question? Yeah. In

15:45

your application, did it

15:47

say that you were in Portugal? I

15:51

did not mention that. No, because it

15:53

was you're just kind of filling out.

15:55

They're not asking you where your face. So they

15:57

had no way of knowing you were in Portugal. No.

16:01

Other than looking at your IP address maybe. Okay,

16:03

keep going. I'm sorry. Well, I was

16:05

just, I was very excited. I was planning, I

16:07

could like send the holidays in Europe and then

16:09

start teaching in the spring. That was my thought.

16:12

And you know,

16:14

started buying work clothes. And

16:18

then about a month later, I

16:21

started receiving kind of poorly written email,

16:23

sort of the emails that were attached

16:25

to me to now that lots of

16:27

people get all over the world from

16:29

various different places. We have no must

16:31

you job could take if you would

16:33

like five to 20, $65. And

16:38

the only thing that's in good English is send money, you

16:40

know? So

16:43

I started getting those sorts of emails supposedly from

16:45

the school. And

16:48

obviously that was a big, big, regular

16:50

flag. I talked to my

16:52

program just in case there was something I

16:54

wasn't aware of. They're like, oh, we

16:57

need money to pay for

16:59

your travel expenses. And you know, that. So

17:04

they needed money from you so

17:06

they could pay you for your travel

17:09

expenses. Yeah. Yeah. I

17:11

like that. Wait, Adam, you do that to me all the

17:15

time. Well that's different. I do. I

17:17

thought it was totally legit. Jim, what,

17:20

what, I don't actually understand, honestly,

17:22

I'm not kidding now. I don't really

17:24

get how that works. So say

17:28

again, come again. You

17:30

go ahead. I mean, which part, which part

17:32

do you want me to say again? I

17:35

mean, I didn't, but they

17:37

were, they were saying for

17:39

like the proper paperwork that needed to be

17:42

taken care of in order for me to

17:44

work for them. I needed to

17:46

give them money. Well,

17:49

what was amazing was that the

17:52

application process was really tedious and

17:54

there had been emails supposedly from

17:56

the school beforehand, which probably

17:58

had been like copied. tasted and then moved

18:01

around slightly or something. Everything

18:03

had seemed very official. There were even

18:05

were supposed pictures of the school. Was

18:11

it fabulous? No, no. They

18:13

were like, you would expect, you know,

18:15

these tiny little schools with like, you

18:18

know, kids in the small

18:20

classrooms and you know, nothing

18:22

gave it away until the very last

18:25

bit. It was almost disappointing on their

18:27

side because they had spent

18:30

all this time, obviously, for all the

18:32

earlier part of the work. If

18:35

they had just done something similar on the

18:37

last end, they probably would have

18:39

been more successful with me. But wait,

18:41

what was the TDM like? Like what kind of things?

18:43

Did you have to write an essay? Did you have

18:45

to? It's pages, pages of

18:47

all kinds of questions. There's a specific

18:50

type of like, they want to know

18:52

what kind of teacher you are, you

18:55

know, and what kind of learning

18:57

you prefer, or tied

18:59

to students you prefer, you know, obviously

19:02

your background, how you handle certain

19:04

situations, you know, there's

19:07

kind of basic kind

19:10

of grammar checks, like what book do you

19:12

use? This and that, there's like, you

19:14

know, what do you refer to? Were they

19:17

asking you for personal information about you?

19:20

In the application? Just

19:23

like you would in any other job, you know,

19:26

like what's your background in this? But

19:29

not a social security number or anything like that.

19:31

No, no, there was none of that

19:33

beforehand. Yeah. But the

19:35

TDM, the test, all that stuff,

19:38

the application, that

19:40

was all in totally believable

19:42

and perfectly fine English? Yeah,

19:45

it was perfect English. It was just like

19:47

all the other applications I had filled out

19:50

for like real job. Okay. Okay.

19:53

Okay. Okay. Okay.

19:56

Okay. I'm wondering, did you come across the application

19:58

to begin with? Did you find it online? Yeah,

20:01

there's just there's a basic

20:04

website that are recommended.

20:06

Like these were websites that

20:08

are most schools would send

20:10

you to or like other jobs would send

20:13

you to for the next place

20:15

kind of thing. So

20:17

they were cruising for somebody who wanted to

20:19

apply for a job as a teacher. Yeah,

20:22

they had done they were specifically

20:24

targeting rogue teachers.

20:26

Well, I don't know why do you do that?

20:29

That's a thing. That's a thing with scammers. They

20:31

love targeting people who can't afford to be scammed.

20:33

Did you have any interaction with a human

20:35

being during this process? In

20:39

the last bad English

20:41

email, they called

20:44

me and that was extra funny.

20:46

Oh, so they had your phone number then?

20:49

Well, obviously, yeah, that was part of

20:51

the application and also definitely like the final

20:53

parts of getting the job, you know, so

20:57

they could reach me for various things like

21:00

asking for money and bad

21:02

English, which also happened on the phone. So

21:04

they even have a proper English speaker. Do

21:08

you have any idea where in the world they were calling

21:10

from? Do you know where this was based or no? No,

21:12

I have no idea. I know it was it

21:15

was it was not clear on any

21:18

level where they were coming from based on that

21:20

phone call. It was very short. That could

21:24

have been from like a lot of different locations.

21:27

I don't know. It

21:29

wasn't my school was

21:32

sort of horrified to hear that

21:35

I was being asked for money. They said

21:37

that's really unusual. Obviously

21:39

different day and age. And

21:42

then and that was when they that was when they

21:44

stole your car and held your dog for

21:47

ransom. Yeah, yeah, that's

21:49

exactly what happened next. Yeah. And

21:51

then we went to Antarctica and and I fell

21:54

in love with the penguin and it turns out

21:56

to be really beautiful story. The

21:58

penguin part I heard was nice, but Interpol

22:00

agent was sort of a jerk, right? Yeah,

22:03

but all Interpol agents are. It's a shitty

22:05

job. Well, I'm glad, so how's the penguin

22:07

these days? Still doing okay? Yeah,

22:10

yeah, we have a special

22:12

connection. Yeah, you should talk

22:14

to Adam. He has a penguin friend. You

22:18

have a penguin? Yeah, invisible

22:20

penguin, yeah. Also, lots of

22:22

friends that are moose, too.

22:25

I mean, what? Well, you have a moose?

22:28

Is the moose also invisible? An invisible

22:30

moose, yeah. And a squirrel. Oh,

22:32

that was the cartoon series I was doing,

22:34

you know, so. You missed, actually,

22:36

when I think

22:39

I live now where you're in an area sort of

22:41

like where your mom used to live. And

22:43

so I came home the other night and there

22:45

was a giant, and I mean giant, like 18

22:47

feet tall coyote in my front

22:49

yard. Come to think

22:52

of it, it might've been a moose. I

22:54

didn't make friends with him. I told him

22:56

to go fuck off, actually, because I have,

22:59

you might know that I have two tripod

23:01

dogs. And so

23:03

I feel like it's coyote bait, and

23:05

I just wanted that coyote to go away. And

23:08

at the time, you were feeling your inner

23:10

Logan Roy. Yeah,

23:12

I don't know. Who's Logan Roy? Succession.

23:16

Oh, I don't watch it, so I don't know. That's what

23:18

he tells everyone to do. Yeah, Logan Roy starts to fuck

23:20

off a lot. I think that was a reference. Oh, he

23:22

does fuck off a lot. Yeah, yeah. That's what he does.

23:24

I say fuck off a lot, too. That's

23:27

when he loves you. He says fuck off.

23:29

Oh. And

23:32

so goes our rating. Travis

23:34

is now slowly pulling every remaining

23:36

strand of hair out of his

23:39

head. Yeah, Adam, what

23:41

do you think Travis fucks and thinks about this

23:43

fucking mess of a fucking show? Fuck.

23:50

Ha! We're

23:52

not supposed to say fuck. This

23:54

seems to be pretty fucked up at this point.

23:56

Anyway, I never heard Adam say fuck before. Wim,

23:59

you should probably say fuck. just once so that everyone

24:01

has said it and we can be done. There

24:05

you go. Oh, shit. How

24:09

did you feel when you got

24:12

scammed? Because this sucks. You

24:14

had a legit job in Indonesia and you went for the job in

24:16

Portugal because you were

24:18

enjoying your shining experience

24:20

on the coast of Indonesia.

24:24

And you went for the job in

24:26

Portugal because you were enjoying your shining

24:28

experience on the coast of the

24:30

wintry, you know, Atlantic

24:33

there. You talked

24:35

about feeling idealistic and naive and you learned

24:37

the hard way and all that, but what

24:39

did you learn? You know, did it change

24:43

anything for you going forward? I

24:46

mean, yeah, I mean, it definitely

24:48

changed a lot. I'm overtly idealistic

24:52

and good humored. Even

24:54

though 10 years later, I still am. Even

24:57

when the world's burning, I still am. And

25:01

so I always, but I'm

25:03

not stupid. And I read

25:06

the writing on the wall, but I was a

25:08

little bit hit over the head that someone would

25:10

spend so much time trying

25:13

to get money from people who obviously don't

25:15

have a lot of money. And

25:17

I think some of the paid

25:20

positions as a teacher, you possibly

25:22

have, you know, these are

25:25

not people who are sitting on any board. It's

25:28

like most half of these jobs are

25:30

you're getting room and board, maybe

25:33

a little stipend on the side, like

25:35

very, very, very little. It

25:37

was just kind of blew my

25:39

mind that that would be interesting enough

25:41

or motivating enough for any person. Obviously

25:45

not the best idea, not the greatest

25:47

game. If you're just trying to fill

25:49

your pockets of money. Well, I

25:52

almost feel like somebody had an axe to grind against

25:54

a teacher or something along the way. And

25:57

this is how

25:59

they basically got it. it out of their

26:01

system, unfortunately, trying to get money out

26:03

of your system. How much money was it? How

26:05

much did they need from you? Oh,

26:07

I don't know. Maybe it was like a thousand euros

26:09

or something like that. Oh, it was not a small

26:12

amount of money. That's a number. Yeah.

26:14

Yeah, I would be playing.

26:16

I think it was like 50 bucks or something. No,

26:19

it was a chunk. Yeah.

26:22

Wow. I don't remember it specifically, but

26:24

it was a chunk of change. Yeah.

26:26

So now you don't go forward now. That's

26:28

what I'm saying. So now you

26:31

don't look at the world

26:33

through those gumbag colored

26:35

glasses. I

26:37

don't. Maybe I should. No.

26:40

It would color my perception of the world, and

26:45

it sounds like it really didn't for you. No.

26:47

You're more careful, I guess. I'm

26:50

careful. I definitely do more due

26:52

diligence for a lot of things, but a

26:54

lot of time researching. It's a lot easier though to do

26:56

it. Go behind and believe things that

26:58

come up. The

27:03

whole internet world is a very,

27:05

very different place now. It makes it a

27:08

little bit easier in a sense to look

27:10

up something like a school like that,

27:12

or an organization or something. Listen,

27:15

if you hadn't been scammed, do you think you'd

27:17

still be teaching? I

27:20

definitely have taught since

27:22

I was scammed, but I

27:24

never taught abroad after that.

27:27

I think that is interesting. And

27:30

I think definitely had a lot to do with

27:32

that moment in time. I

27:35

think a couple times in my life, I

27:37

think, like other people, I've been screwed over.

27:40

And instead of continuing

27:43

in that direction, I was like, okay,

27:45

we're going to do this now. And I

27:47

just would full pivot. And

27:49

that's worked for me. I don't know if

27:51

that's the cowardest route

27:54

it might be, because I don't like hitting

27:56

my head against the wall too much. I

27:59

like to think about it as... like abstract

28:01

thinking, that problem solving. Just

28:05

work on a different problem, never mind. Well,

28:08

you know, why suffer when you don't

28:11

have to? I kind

28:13

of like that. I mean, Bo and I, we

28:15

suffer when we don't have to. This part of

28:17

what we do is we suffer. That's how this

28:19

podcast came to be. This is right. So

28:36

Travis, basically the information that Wim

28:38

provided is they could use this

28:40

information kind of as a lead

28:43

in for other scams, right? Absolutely.

28:45

Yeah. Scammers can and will use

28:47

any information, any data that they

28:49

have on you to

28:51

their advantage. That's one of the reasons why

28:53

things like posting too

28:55

much information on social media is never a

28:58

good idea. That

29:00

once that information is out there, it is out

29:02

there. It can be used to figure out your

29:04

security questions. It could be used to

29:07

scam someone that you might be

29:10

connected to online, to be able to say

29:12

like, hey, remember me from blank? And then

29:15

they can just use that information

29:17

to impersonate you. Yeah. The number

29:20

of applications are sort of limitless,

29:22

unfortunately. Yeah. But you know,

29:24

Travis, at the end of the day, if

29:26

someone's super clever and I'm super not paying

29:28

attention, you know,

29:31

I might click the link. I might. And

29:34

I feel like, you

29:36

know, at some point I got a different

29:39

question for you. Wim, are you pretty careful?

29:41

Do you protect your

29:43

data? Do you think that

29:45

you're kind of hard to scam? Do you have

29:47

your credit frozen? Do you have your

29:50

passwords set all uniquely and differently

29:52

and use two-factor authentication? Or are

29:54

you pretty, or do you

29:56

just use nano

29:59

as your password? and let

30:01

it rip. We had a guy

30:03

that definitely was using sacre bleu

30:05

as his password. No, no. My

30:08

aunt, whose name I never learned how to say,

30:10

because she wasn't actually my aunt. I think she

30:12

was my grandmother's cousin. I'm pretty

30:14

good about it now. I always feel like

30:16

it could be better, but I also feel

30:18

like if someone really wanted to,

30:22

I'm not the take and

30:25

rea burst in

30:27

the best way to hack

30:29

someone. But I am very aware of how

30:31

much information I can get on somebody. I

30:34

could not have very little skills. Yeah. So I

30:36

feel like it is helpful that I

30:38

move around a lot. It's

30:45

helpful. I have artist name. All

30:48

those sorts of things have protected me. I didn't

30:50

plan on those protecting me. But

30:53

yeah, we all don't belong

30:55

to ourselves anymore, haven't in a

30:57

long time. And it is sadly a bit of

31:00

a lock and a drop. I

31:04

think unless you are really,

31:07

really vigilant and constantly changing

31:09

everything all the time, which

31:12

I don't know a single person who does. Yeah.

31:16

You're talking to a couple of them.

31:18

Oh, okay. Well,

31:22

good for you. I'm glad. I'm glad you're here. No,

31:24

I mean, I have to. I constantly am going to

31:27

like people who would like to scam me.

31:29

So I do have to

31:31

keep it a little tight and right. But

31:34

yeah, I was just curious because it

31:36

seems like that is a liability. But

31:41

I do have a question. Do I remember

31:43

correctly that your Instagram account was hacked? Yeah,

31:46

it was. Yeah. Yeah.

31:48

And how was that? You got phished or no? Oh,

31:54

it was. It was. Yeah, it was like a

31:56

kind of phishing of a buddy of mine got

31:58

hacked and they contacted me through their account, that

32:00

sort of. Oh, it's the Turkish scam. We know

32:02

we're very familiar with this hack. Yeah,

32:04

it's I think probably really, really common.

32:07

I'm glad I didn't get the more aggressive hack, though.

32:09

I had heard

32:11

once about people being their accounts

32:14

held hostage. In a sense, I

32:17

hired other people from, I

32:19

think, from the same thread of hacking that

32:21

was a part of getting more aggressive versions

32:23

of that. Yeah.

32:26

And sadly, I had a kind of

32:28

stupid moment, I guess, by not being

32:30

a little bit more suspicious, like, at

32:32

other times in my life, you know,

32:34

and got hacked. And that definitely

32:36

affected, you know, such

32:39

a lot of these things, their number gain, but that's

32:41

okay. Like, life goes on. So you have

32:43

a new Instagram account, and you should

32:45

probably, you know, get a few new

32:47

followers today. What is

32:51

your new handle at Instagram? It's

32:53

at wimontawim. Wimontawim.

32:56

Yeah. That's easy. But

32:58

it's not wimontawim. No,

33:01

not wimontawim. But you could

33:03

say wimontawim. Yeah. All

33:05

right, wimontawim. Wim, this has

33:07

been great. Bye, Wim. Bye, guys. And

33:09

if you want to hear one of Wim's songs, please stick

33:11

around till the end of this episode. The

33:26

family that vacations together stays together.

33:28

At least that was the plan.

33:30

Except now the dastardly desk clerk

33:32

is saying he can't confirm your

33:34

connecting rooms. Wait, what? That's right, ma'am.

33:36

You have rooms 201 and 709. No,

33:39

we cannot be five floors away from

33:41

our kids. Eh, the doors have double

33:43

locks. They'll be fine. When you want

33:45

your connecting rooms confirmed before you arrive,

33:47

it matters where you stay. Welcome to

33:50

Hilton. I see your connecting rooms are

33:52

already confirmed. Hilton, for

33:54

this day. He's the

33:56

most terrifying serial killer you've never heard

33:58

of. Hadn't called me. Clark has confessed

34:00

to several murders, but investigators say he could

34:02

have over 100 victims. At

34:05

the center of the mayhem, a cell

34:07

made of Haddens that was able to

34:09

get key evidence into Haddon's murder spree

34:11

across America, because Haddon thought

34:13

he was Jesus Christ. Born evil,

34:16

the serial killer and the savior,

34:18

an ID true crime event continues

34:20

tonight at nine. Watch

34:22

on ID or stream on Macs,

34:24

set your DVR. Do

34:27

you know Wim is not alone in being

34:29

scammed like that? Because we are not alone

34:31

in the universe. No, but there's the application

34:34

scams are a dime a dozen. And the most common one

34:36

right now is with COVID, where

34:40

there are fake COVID testing sites set up. And

34:44

yeah, they'll stick something up your nose. But

34:46

what they're really doing is gathering your information.

34:48

You don't get any results. Well,

34:51

the results you get is that you're out of the box.

34:54

Well, the results you get is that your identity,

34:57

you're an experienced identity theft.

35:01

Well, not only that, but they

35:03

stick something up your nose and then they

35:05

charge your credit card for it. Well, some of them are

35:07

free. And that's the even

35:09

more insidious part, because it's a free test, right?

35:11

Except there's not free at all. Except for that

35:13

they're trying to figure out how to charge the

35:15

government or the insurance company for it. No, no,

35:18

no. Or they're just trying to get your information.

35:20

Well, that too. Right? You know, to commit it. They get your birth

35:22

date. Travis, you

35:24

ever been been fine yourself with an

35:26

application situation that was looking for some

35:29

money and bibbidi bop, bibbidi boo? A

35:32

couple of times when I've done

35:34

some job searches in the past, I like usually a little bit

35:36

too far into the process, I

35:38

would be realizing like, oh, they're asking for my

35:40

social security number and a whole bunch of this

35:42

other information. And then I just have to like

35:44

stop and say, I need

35:46

to kind of figure out whether or not this is a

35:48

legit. And in a couple of cases,

35:51

it is absolutely not been. It's definitely been

35:53

a scam. Hey Travis, think about it. Bo hasn't

35:55

realized the fact that when he filed an application

35:57

to be on this show, you and I nailed

35:59

it.